
In this webinar, Mandy Rodrigues, MA, Clinical Psychologist, discussed recurrent miscarriages and how to cope with them.
If we look at miscarriage in general, infertility impacts 1 in 6 people, but miscarriage is 1 in 4 people. Recurrent miscarriage, and I pray a lot of you don’t fall into that category, but is 1-2% of the population, usually defined as 3 miscarriages. We’re trying very much to create awareness with the doctor, to kind to refer you to specialists before you have to go through 3 miscarriages if you’re not already there.
I also want to say that those of you who have or are going through infertility and have recurrent negative IVFs that could also be defined, in some way, as a recurrent pregnancy loss. There is rarely closure, but I will guide you to say how we get the closure that we do.
I’m trying very hard to get people to present sooner to a specialist, and it’s sometimes very hard like we think: ‘What if I fall pregnant naturally before?’, ‘Why do I need to go to fertility clinic?’. We do see that sometimes secondary infertility does happen after a miscarriage.
Often loss in miscarriage is only dealt with months or even later down the line. I have a strong urge to teach people, and we’re busy designing a program that says ‘Please, can we refer people after their first miscarriage?’ Firstly, the clinics often don’t offer that; but secondly, it could be we’re going through this constant grief cycle, especially if you go through this again. It’s sometimes only years later that the trauma is dealt with.
There’s this fear of pregnancy, even if you do get a successful pregnancy, and many people say to me ‘I feel guilty, I feel anxious every day, I don’t how to deal with this, I’m worried I’m not going to attach to this baby, I’m worried about all of that’, we can manage all of that and help people cope with it.
If we have a look at this book, written by Henry Greely, it was very recent. It says that ‘The End of Sex is Nigh’. For all the males out there, I’m not saying that it’s going to stop, but in terms of infertility, it’s moving towards this trend of doing pre-genetic screening, of doing a lot of, not designing babies, but a lot of procedures that can get people pregnant. It’s moving very fast ART. However, with that, we’re getting some miscarriages, more miscarriages, more identical twins, and sometimes multiple pregnancies; so, it becomes very important to discuss this topic.
It includes:
I’m going to show you a video just to show you how parents cope. I apologize if that video hurt a lot of you, I’m sure it did. Furthermore, I usually end up crying when I play some of this because I think it’s so important to hear from the actual mums and dads who are going through this.
These are some of the quotes that grieving mums have put together.
The following are some of the mums that I’ve seen who have gone through recurrent miscarriages. One mum, who had 8 miscarriages, sent me a voice note and said, “I felt like a human coffin.” It broke my heart. She was carrying these babies, and she just felt like you’ve all felt before.
Every scan after my losses, all I could see was an empty womb. A stark reminder of the day my heart broke, and I cried for my angels.
It was another mum who had 4 miscarriages who said to me, “I would never kill myself as I have some hidden hope, but I needed to be punished for failing yet again.” This mum presented to me only years down the line with a complicated grief reaction, that became pathological. She stopped eating and drinking, and 14 days later, we had to put her on drugs, and it was her way of punishing herself.
I did a study with these mums, I had to present at a Fertility Show in Africa last year, and I had to quickly do qualitative research on mums who had gone through miscarriages. This is what we came up with:
We interviewed 10 mums because we didn’t have much time and dads. The most important thing that came up was there was no sensitivity for anyone. Like the mum before, who happens to be my beautiful niece, she felt that there was no sensitivity to the way a recurrent miscarriage is handled. 8 out of the 10 said that no psychological support was even offered to them, and the staff was very uncomfortable. There was also a lack of knowledge by the staff, which you’ll hear none of from other mums.
The last one is the overall good management of neonatal loss. That’s very different, that’s a fertilized that’s going down the line, and no feedback nor guidance. The following are short clips from a couple of mums that I interviewed.
These moms, they’re not pictures, they’re not words to describe your loss. I’ve had early miscarriages, I had no one to talk to, I wasn’t referred to anyone, and it doesn’t matter whether you’re like some of these mums who’ve lost their babies at the end, or whether I lost my babies at the six-week scan every time, and I lost two, and then I had three negative IVFs, so I know a little bit, but these mums are phenomenal.
We run a group called the Hope Box, and if you look at my social media, the Hope Box is incredible. Mums who had miscarriages join, and no one needs to stand up and say ‘This is Mandy, I’ve lost a baby.’ No one needs to talk. We sit there together as a group with husbands, with grannies, with everyone, and we make boxes for mums who lost children and who had miscarriages. We build these little boxes and the hospital then lets us know if they’re dealing with the miscarriage, and we try to give them that and try to offer them support.
For those of us who’ve studied psychology, it looked so simple when we studied it.
There was a loss and this was followed by this neat state of shock and disbelief, like ‘I can’t believe there’s no heartbeat. I can’t believe that I didn’t get an eight-week scan.
Then there’s bargaining, ‘What did I do wrong? How do I make sense of this? Did I maybe cause it? Am I being punished?’
Then we go through being anger. Angered is normal. We get angry at the whole world, but there’s nothing we can do.
Then we go through depression. We feel hopeless and hopeless.
According to the psychology I learned, we’re supposed to accept. No. It carries on and on. A new cycle of loss comes and it’s dashed again. So, you’re going through recurrent grief cycles all the time.
It’s not like losing a mother or a grandparent, who you have a history with and you have photographs, and you’ve got wonderful memories and you can move to that anger and through those stages, I’m not saying it’s easy if you’ve lost a parent, but I’m saying that losing a child, you’re losing a future you dreamed with your baby. It’s so much more, so we go through this kind of grief cycle.

It’s not simple. It’s up and down. Acceptance is never an acceptance. It takes to find closure, even the mums I see who had kids afterwards, you don’t forget. I want you to imagine the story of when losing a baby, you’re on this storm. Waves are crushing around you and there’s no life raft, and there’s no one to help you and you feel like you’re drowning. There’s no one holding your hand. Then, a life raft appears somewhere and you’re able to hold on to it. You’re able to just hold on during the storm, and with time you sail to the shore and the way it’s become a little bit more predictable, they become a little bit more manageable. They still come, I promise you that, but you know when they’re going to come. You learn.
Before talking about what grief is, I want you to look at this picture that men and women, this is what they do.
Women grieving, this is hard to show and people start coping independently, but both of you have this inner child that is trying to reach out to the other person. What’s so important is that often, in a good marriage, one is struggling and the other one is strongest, so you might have your husband say ‘Well, try again’ or ‘Let’s not try anymore’, or ‘Come on.’ As soon as you start coping, what happens in a good marriage is that the men almost have permission to grieve.
It’s just a personal story, I lost my mom 10 days ago to COVID. I’m okay because this is my passion, and I’m looking after my family and my godson said to me ‘Auntie Mandy, I do not want to come out of my room,” and everyone was in the room, and he said, ‘I can’t because you’re all crying, when do I get to cry?’ This is what people are going through, what your husbands are going through, they’re thinking, ‘We can’t cope together, we can’t grieve together because one of us needs to be here and we need to hope the other one gets through.’
If we look at the stages of grief, appropriate grief it’s going to what I showed you. It’s generally, they say 6 months, but that’s not with a child, not with losing a miscarriage. It’s not because you’re grieving everything you imagined. You’re grieving your pregnancy death, your first Mother’s Day after having lost a baby, your baby’s due date, your first Christmas when you thought you would have your baby. You’re grieving into the future and it’s relentless, especially when you’ve had a few miscarriages.
It becomes complicated, oftentimes I find with loss and miscarriage, it becomes complicated it lasts longer than a year. You’ve heard some of the ladies I spoke to, it’s been 10 years down the line and they can’t talk. They spoke to me because they trusted me and they permitted me to post their talks, but it’s a heightened stage of mourning and intense sorrow. We get those who stop eating and can’t work anymore pathological grief. That becomes a problem that you can’t go to work anymore, you withdraw from the world, and that becomes something we need to manage.
When you haven’t lost a baby, when you haven’t been through IVFs or failures, or recurrent miscarriages, you think ‘Who’s going to understand me? What professional is going to understand what I’ve been through? Who can change the outcome? Who can make this better for me? No one and I agree, but the ways we can facilitate you dealing with two things happening at once, with constant grief and infertility.
However, we especially with the European Fertility Society and IVF Media, always say we’re stronger together. We’re going to be an advocate for patients, for this psychological care and take that forward.
The following is what we’re trying to train staff to do. We’re trying to train staff that:
Most of you enter this journey with depression or anxiety, post-traumatic stress, sometimes marital distress, and postnatal depression because whether you carry your baby for five babies, when I carried my baby for six weeks and I did DNCs, you still feel pregnant. You wake up every morning, and you don’t want to wake up because you remember, and it exacerbates and exacerbates those issues.
We need to train staff and we’re going to do that with guidelines. I can promise you we’re training fertility staff from the ground up, with the European Fertility Society from the minute you step into a fertility clinic to the council lady, to the people in the theatre to help you get through this.
When you lose a child, you join a club no one wants to belong to, and you are also in the minority you kind of alert to join them. You want so much to fit into a world you were in before that’s got pregnancy, anticipation, and a future with your baby, and where your conversations are joyful and expectant. Then you suddenly lose your baby and by default, you initiated very cruelly into this club. You resist it and people around you don’t seem to understand and maybe whisper between themselves, not sure of what to say and they initially give support and then they move on, and they carry on with their lives. So, you feel estranged and you’re on the outside looking in and you’re withdrawing to yourself and you can’t escape the memories, and you can’t stop people from moving on without you. You feel that they have some morbid fascination when they ask questions. Never has it felt so lonely belonging to an elite club of people brought together not by choice but by the cruel hand of fate.
You know what? What do you say to someone who’s going through a miscarriage? There’s nothing, but you know what? That’s the best thing to say. The best thing is to say, ‘I’m so sorry, and I don’t have the words, and I’m here for you.’ Instead of her asking for help, I’ve noticed now with my mum passing, don’t go and ask us anything that you can do, do it. Send her some food, send her something that maybe she doesn’t need to think about, but I think the most honest way to manage this is to say, ‘I don’t know what you’re going through, and I wish I could fix it, but I don’t have the right words to say.’ That’s the honest, and that’s what you say to someone.
You can’t say the right words, you can’t fix it. If you go on my website, mandyrodrigues.com, there is a blog that I’ve written on what to say and what not to say to people going through fertility and going through loss and miscarriage, and you can have a look at that. There are no right words and say that. Say that. They don’t want to hear, ‘Oh well, maybe it was all for the right reasons.’ I know we’re trying to fix it. We might say the wrong things like, ‘Well, at least you know you can fall pregnant.’ No way, that’s what you guys hear all the time or at least you didn’t miscarry at 8 months, or stupid comments like, ‘Maybe he would have had an abnormal baby.’ No, none of you want to hear that. So, you rather just say, ‘I don’t know what to say, and I’m sorry for your loss.’
Absolutely. I’m smiling because my godson got a hamster today and called him Hunter. A tiny, little hamster.
Absolutely, for some people definitely, it does help to get a fur baby, and it does help to put all your nurturing and all of that on your baby and to help distract your fur baby. Again, I find lots of my patients do that, lots of them, and it helps you distract yourself, but there are also those patients that don’t do that because maybe the value of having a baby to them was not as much nurturing but had a different value to them, and they find different ways. I’ve got mums who have started support groups. I’ve got mums who have written a book, so it might not be for me. Furthermore, I’m an animal lover, that’s why we’ve got eight rescues I think, for me, it was always, ‘I’m going to rescue a dog, I’m going to rescue a puppy’, but for some people and me, it’s about posting a video, for me, it’s helping other people, and it all depends on what the value is for you as an individual.
What I would suggest is that oftentimes and, for those men listening, I’m not [unheard]. If I ever said to my husband, ‘Baby can we see a therapist?’, he would be, ‘Are you out of your mind? Never, ever.’ So, for most men that’s the norm.
It tends to be the ladies who come, and I give the men to come in by saying, ‘I need you to come in so I can teach you to manage your wife’s grief.’ I normalize it here for the men to say, ‘You’re feeling like you don’t know what to do, you just want to fix it, you just want your wife to be okay, so come with her to the next session and let me help you do that. I’ll teach you how to look after her, and I promise you that’s the way I get the men in and realize this is normal, what I’m going through is normal, what we’re going through, and our marriage is normal. The fact that I may not be feeling the same grief and all of that because right now, I’m being a supportive husband, but we show the men and women together what they’re going through.
The woman presents more easily, and then I say to the men, ‘come, please.’ Or their wives say ‘come’, and let me teach you how to manage your wife who is grieving, and that is what I would recommend.
It’s a pleasure. Can I give you one word of advice? Maybe ask her, as I said before, tell her you’re not sure what to say, and tell her on your behalf because you’re not sure what to say because you watched a live webinar. She will appreciate that so much and ask her if she’d like to see it or save it for her and say ‘Only when you’re ready, this is what I attended and when you’re ready,’ because I worry we send it to her too soon, and it’s going to break her heart. First, do what I say you should do, and then you can say ‘I attended a webinar so that I could help you, and if you would like, I’ll send you the link,’ that’s the best thing to do, I think.
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